This little piggy had roast beef and this little piggy had none
I am absolutely certain that the principle of respect for personal autonomy is a moral absolute, a belief for which a close friend of mine and Professor of healthcare ethics regularly criticises me. It also underpins my attitudes to parenting, I want the toddler to find his own path, make his own mistakes and most importantly learn from his experiences but I know I cannot bring up a young child without being in some ways paternalistic and that the decisions I make now will necessarily restrict his future choices. My decision not to have the toddler immunised is one I’m comfortable with, and I hope one he will understand and respect when he’s older, hopefully not suffering the effects of having contracted polio. My decisions about his diet however I’m having much more difficulty with, especially whether or not to feed him meat.
My own choices about meat are inconsistent, I was brought up a vegetarian until I was approaching double-digits when my parents decided I was old enough to choose to eat meat when at a friend’s house or having a meal out, I have had periods of vegetarianism in my adult life and now choose to eat mainly fish, although I do eat meat. In fact my moral choices about most things are inconsistent, I gravitate towards a green lifestyle but the eco setting on the shower which reduces a powerful spray of hot water to a tepid dribble is a step too far.
My dilemma is this, if I choose to feed the toddler meat am I encouraging him to do something he may later decide is morally repugnant or am I currently denying him something he may enjoy and, hypocritically, I allow myself to enjoy, albeit in moderation. In case you wondered my hypocrisy doesn’t extend to showering him on the eco setting.
Nick, I have the advantage of living with a vegetarian biologist when considering the above… with respect to the conversations we have had around these issues, we’ve kinda hit on the direct opposite to you.
Immunisation: speak to any scientist and it’s a no brainer, why risk it? I’m frankly flabbergasted??? I didn’t place you in the ‘MMR panic’ group, so what’s the thinking here?
Vegetarianism: Kim’s a veggie, but ffeds the kids meat – its simply down to biology, excluding meat excludes a significant source of protein which we are genetically evolved to harbour as part of our makeup. Kim feeds our kids a healthy mix of pure veggie, lots of fish and meat twice a week(ish) and we (the kids and I) do very well off it.
As to choice, this situation, like religious indoctrination of children at a young age with BS bible stories is about offering a fair amount of everything without stigma, guilt or prejudice…
It’s the best you can do.
Chris Durham
September 5, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Chris, thank you for your response.
Immunisation: there are dramatic side-effects linked to immunisation, a friend of the family has MS and there is a sufficient causal link and chance of genetic propensity that she has been advised by medical professionals against having her children immunised, the government also maintains a substantial fund to compensate those who suffer the side-effects of immunisation. If you take out the ‘Daily Mail’ effect of the MMR scare then the majority of those who opt not to immunise and well-educated professionals and within that group the largest group are medical professionals. I obviously researched this in great depth, including discussing it with my sister, who is a trained bio-medical scientist, and am I utterly convinced that living in a society where the majority of its members are immunised is beneficial, but there is no need for any more than around 90% to be immunised for all to benefit. It’s selfish but if the toddler can benefit from everyone else immunising their kids without having to be exposed to the risks then great!
Vegetarianism: We eat very differently from how our ancestors ate and I’m unconvinced by the ‘we’re designed to eat meat’ argument. Today the toddler will sit down to three meals, not really how he’s designed to eat. Lots of what he’ll eat won’t have been gathered locally so will be processed and out of season and some of his dietary needs will be met by artificially fortified foods – the cereals he’s currently eating are fortified with vitamins and iron. Protein can be got from many natural and artificial sources other than meat.
The point of the blog was that although I can argue both sides of the coin in both cases I am unsure how best to proceed. I take your points on board, and agree with a lot of what you say. Had the toddler’s mum not agreed with me about immunisation or eaten meat I may have acted differently and I may yet change my mind.
Nick Cartwright
September 6, 2010 at 6:57 am
Looks like you did your homework (as usual) on the immunisation side, that said different immunisations have different risks – and it all very well to argue the ’90% rule’ as long as your son spends the rest of his life in the UK… you may have to convince him that the GAP year at 18 in Cornwall is FAAARRR better than Indonesia.
Nightmare isn’t it!?!
On the meat issue and reading below, Kim’s sworn off meat for an identical reason to you. Meat three times a day is not healthy, we have meat maybe once or twice a week (not counting prawns/fish/mackerel etc)…
A high protein/fat source is useful (practically essential) to a growing child, (beware the Chelsea Tractor related child diets) … and complex proteins etc that are only found in meat.
I disagree with indoctrination in meat (or Jesus) for children, but I also disagree with the forced exclusion of meat or any religious thought in their upbringing. I’m an atheist, but understanding the historical and cultural relevance of the bible/Koran/Buddha is important.
Meat is equally important. It’s all about palate.
(PLUS there’s nothing sadder than the kid who can’t have something basic ALL their friends are having, every day, at school, at home, in shops, why are they different?? Daddy’s idea … go on, cave in, once…)
If logical argument fails, guilt always works*.
*See Catholicism.
Chris Durham
September 6, 2010 at 9:23 am
You raise many interesting points and as always they are very well written. As a single parent one of the things I find most difficult is making decisions about Edward’s upbringing – the sounding block I thought I’d always have isn’t there any more. I miss having someone to share the ‘burden’ of the decision making process.
It wasn’t that long ago that I’d run off to see the health visitor and chew her ear off! Now I’m more comfortable with my role.
I’m going to muse on some thoughts and come back!
We share some similarities – I have spent many periods of my life swaying between vegetarianism and vegan-ism and am for the time being a meat-eater!
We also disagree on some issues – after much soul searching we went ahead with the full immunisation programme.
Thank you for raising the issues!
Simon Kensington
September 5, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Hi Simon,
thanks for your reply. I did respond this morning but for some reason it’s not showing. Essentially I agreed with you about the lack of a sounding board and added to that the difficulty of feeling solely responsible for every decision. I’m certainly not going to do a perfect job of this parenting lark, my ambition is to do a good enough job!
Speak soon, Nick
Nick Cartwright
September 6, 2010 at 11:35 am
But why go against something that we’re built to eat? We have the teeth designed to eat meat. I’ve been down the route of vegetarianism but caved while smelling chicken bbq’ing! If you do decide to go the meat way then maybe see about buying from farmers? We buy a half a cow and store it in our freezer. And if your toddler chooses to later on not eat meat then, fine. Protein is so important for them at this age!
Leah
September 6, 2010 at 5:16 am
Leah, thank you for your comment.
We’re designed to do and eat a lot of things are not necessary to being healthy. We are designed to forage and eat local, seasonal foods including meat but intensive farming is not part of this design. My moral difficulties are not with eating meat – I don’t think animals are particularly cuddly and am in no way squeamish – my objections are to farming methods with seem very cruel. I live in a culture were the expectation is that we consume 3 plates of the best cuts of meat a day – an attitude which has necessitated intensive farming and the associated environmental devastation. I’m deviating I know so I’ll end here.
Nick Cartwright
September 6, 2010 at 7:06 am
Maybe get to know a few farmers in your area? I work with a lovely lady who has the most wonderful chicken eggs! Soooooo much better than store bought!! Or even have some chickens of your own?! That would be fun!!
Leah
September 6, 2010 at 1:17 pm